operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

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operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

Andrew Harvey-3
On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 11:03, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
That is the main distinction though, at least in Australia, although I know that it changes around the world. In a "private" hospital, you personally (or your health insurance fund) will pay for it, while a public hospital is funded by the Government so you won't pay for treatment.

Not sure if anyone else is interested, but after reading this I thought I'd try to add some more detail to hospitals, and created the Map Roulette challenge to add the operator:type tag to hospitals to distinguish private/public hospitals.


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Re: operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

Phil Wyatt

So a private hospital run by a religious order gets two tags?

 

operator:type=private AND operator:type=religious?

 

From: Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 1:01 PM
To: OSM Australian Talk List <[hidden email]>
Subject: [talk-au] operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

 

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 11:03, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

That is the main distinction though, at least in Australia, although I know that it changes around the world. In a "private" hospital, you personally (or your health insurance fund) will pay for it, while a public hospital is funded by the Government so you won't pay for treatment.

 

Not sure if anyone else is interested, but after reading this I thought I'd try to add some more detail to hospitals, and created the Map Roulette challenge to add the operator:type tag to hospitals to distinguish private/public hospitals.

 


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Re: operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

Andrew Harvey-3
Pretty sure you can't have two tags (keys) the same with different values.

If it's run by a religious organisation then I would say it should be tagged as operator:type=religious. Religious is just a special type of private. So public hospitals would just be all which are not operator:type=public.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 15:33, Phil Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

So a private hospital run by a religious order gets two tags?

 

operator:type=private AND operator:type=religious?

 

From: Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 1:01 PM
To: OSM Australian Talk List <[hidden email]>
Subject: [talk-au] operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

 

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 11:03, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

That is the main distinction though, at least in Australia, although I know that it changes around the world. In a "private" hospital, you personally (or your health insurance fund) will pay for it, while a public hospital is funded by the Government so you won't pay for treatment.

 

Not sure if anyone else is interested, but after reading this I thought I'd try to add some more detail to hospitals, and created the Map Roulette challenge to add the operator:type tag to hospitals to distinguish private/public hospitals.

 


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Re: operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

Australia mailing list
operator:type=religious;private is possible


Jan 11, 2021, 05:46 by [hidden email]:
Pretty sure you can't have two tags (keys) the same with different values.

If it's run by a religious organisation then I would say it should be tagged as operator:type=religious. Religious is just a special type of private. So public hospitals would just be all which are not operator:type=public.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 15:33, Phil Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

So a private hospital run by a religious order gets two tags?

 

operator:type=private AND operator:type=religious?

 

From: Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 1:01 PM
To: OSM Australian Talk List <[hidden email]>
Subject: [talk-au] operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

 

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 11:03, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

That is the main distinction though, at least in Australia, although I know that it changes around the world. In a "private" hospital, you personally (or your health insurance fund) will pay for it, while a public hospital is funded by the Government so you won't pay for treatment.

 

Not sure if anyone else is interested, but after reading this I thought I'd try to add some more detail to hospitals, and created the Map Roulette challenge to add the operator:type tag to hospitals to distinguish private/public hospitals.

 



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Re: operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

Andrew Harvey-3


On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 18:12, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au <[hidden email]> wrote:
operator:type=religious;private is possible

Yes that's possible, but in my opinion incorrect in this situation. It would only make sense where you have a single hospital which has a part operated by a religious entity and another part by a private organisation (company).

If someone is querying the OSM data for all private hospitals they could either search for any value which is not "public", or search for any of private, religious, etc.

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Re: operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

cleary
In reply to this post by Andrew Harvey-3

Can be difficult to get right.

It is useful to have a tag to indicate if government/Medicare-funded services are available or if one requires private health insurance or a credit card to get treatment.  I am not familiar with an appropriate OSM tag and it is also difficult as various terms such as "public" and "medicare" have different meanings in different countries. Perhaps something like public_funded=yes/no/partial

The operator:type=* tag does no harm but this can usually be inferred from the name of the operator e.g operator=Healthscope, operator=St John of God Health Care, operator=Mid North Coast Local Health District etc.

Public/private/religious etc can be muddled:  St Vincent's Hospital in Darlinghurst in Sydney is partly a public hospital and partly private and all operated by a religious organisation. It is separated into "St Vincent's Hospital" and "St Vincent's Private Hospital" with separate reception and accommodation areas but some services are shared by both the public and private.   Hawkesbury District Health Service at Windsor NSW also has mixture of public/private patients and receives a lot of government funding and is operated by a religious organisation. It has only the one name and only one main entrance.

Irrespective of the operator and operator:type tags, I think users would be assisted most by a tag that clearly indicates the funding source/s, particularly whether the facility offers access to government-funded services.





 

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021, at 3:46 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote:

> Pretty sure you can't have two tags (keys) the same with different values.
>
> If it's run by a religious organisation then I would say it should be
> tagged as operator:type=religious. Religious is just a special type of
> private. So public hospitals would just be all which are not
> operator:type=public.
>
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 15:33, Phil Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > So a private hospital run by a religious order gets two tags?____
>
> > __ __
>
> > operator:type <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:operator>=private AND operator:type <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:operator>=religious?____
>
> > __ __
>
> > *From:* Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]>
> > *Sent:* Monday, 11 January 2021 1:01 PM
> > *To:* OSM Australian Talk List <[hidden email]>
> > *Subject:* [talk-au] operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)____
>
> > __ __
>
> > On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 11:03, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:____
>
> >> That is the main distinction though, at least in Australia, although I know that it changes around the world. In a "private" hospital, you personally (or your health insurance fund) will pay for it, while a public hospital is funded by the Government so you won't pay for treatment.____
>
> > __ __
>
> > Not sure if anyone else is interested, but after reading this I thought I'd try to add some more detail to hospitals, and created the Map Roulette challenge to add the operator:type tag to hospitals to distinguish private/public hospitals.____
>
> > __ __
>
> > https://maproulette.org/challenge/15892____
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>

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Re: operator:type to distinguish private/public hospitals | Was: Re: [Tagging] Classifying hospitals (Was: Deprecate healthcare=centre)

Andrew Harvey-3


On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 10:47, cleary <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can be difficult to get right.

It is useful to have a tag to indicate if government/Medicare-funded services are available or if one requires private health insurance or a credit card to get treatment.  I am not familiar with an appropriate OSM tag and it is also difficult as various terms such as "public" and "medicare" have different meanings in different countries. Perhaps something like public_funded=yes/no/partial

The operator:type tag wouldn't say if you can rock up and get free health care, because you can have a privately operated "public" hospital (I think Northern Beaches Hospital is an example). So if you're looking to know where you can go for government covered healthcare then operator:type might not always be the tag to indicate that.

We might well decide that it's not suitable to try and map that level of detail in OSM.
 

The operator:type=* tag does no harm but this can usually be inferred from the name of the operator e.g operator=Healthscope, operator=St John of God Health Care, operator=Mid North Coast Local Health District etc.

Yeah it's usually fairly clear, which makes it easy to add, but makes it much easier for a machine to understand than the operator string alone.
 

Public/private/religious etc can be muddled:  St Vincent's Hospital in Darlinghurst in Sydney is partly a public hospital and partly private and all operated by a religious organisation. It is separated into "St Vincent's Hospital" and "St Vincent's Private Hospital" with separate reception and accommodation areas but some services are shared by both the public and private.   Hawkesbury District Health Service at Windsor NSW also has mixture of public/private patients and receives a lot of government funding and is operated by a religious organisation. It has only the one name and only one main entrance.

Irrespective of the operator and operator:type tags, I think users would be assisted most by a tag that clearly indicates the funding source/s, particularly whether the facility offers access to government-funded services.

Yeah, agreed it can be muddled, maybe then a semicolon separated list of values would be the best we can do. 

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