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osm.org groups

Дмитрий Киселев
Hi everyone,
I know that making a good working groups is hard and only facebook succeed in that, and that's why we don't have any way to group users or friends at osm.org

But can we have at lest something, maybe not so great as slack or fb, 
but anything to group contacts in friends list and create some sort of 
local mailing list or group discussions?

I'm living in a third city since I've start to edit OSM so there are local friends in my list, friends from the places where I used to live before, some of the contacts from conferences all in one list. 

I'm trying to get in touch with local mappers around me, and writing 30+ letters to invite people the meetup is quite cumbersome.

So as a first step, can we create some way of grouping friends in a contact list?
As a second step, can we discuss how to invite a group of people to discuss something all together without third party tools?

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Dmitry

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Re: osm.org groups

Svetlana Tkachenko
Hi Dmitry

Perhaps these features can be useful for the Libreplanet wiki as well.

Svetlana

Дмитрий Киселев <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I know that making a good working groups is hard and only facebook succeed in that, and that's why we don't have any way to group users or friends at osm.org

But can we have at lest something, maybe not so great as slack or fb, 
but anything to group contacts in friends list and create some sort of 
local mailing list or group discussions?

I'm living in a third city since I've start to edit OSM so there are local friends in my list, friends from the places where I used to live before, some of the contacts from conferences all in one list. 

I'm trying to get in touch with local mappers around me, and writing 30+ letters to invite people the meetup is quite cumbersome.

So as a first step, can we create some way of grouping friends in a contact list?
As a second step, can we discuss how to invite a group of people to discuss something all together without third party tools?

--
Best regards,
Dmitry
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Re: osm.org groups

SimonPoole

See https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/297

Unluckily nobody has been motivated enough to do this on their own time, and the OSMF has been steadfastly ignoring any suggestions to undertake any effort to improve the website by spending money.

With other words: holding your breath for this feature is not recommend.

Simon

Am 30.04.2019 um 22:48 schrieb Svetlana Tkachenko:
Hi Dmitry

Perhaps these features can be useful for the Libreplanet wiki as well.

Svetlana

Дмитрий Киселев <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I know that making a good working groups is hard and only facebook succeed in that, and that's why we don't have any way to group users or friends at osm.org

But can we have at lest something, maybe not so great as slack or fb, 
but anything to group contacts in friends list and create some sort of 
local mailing list or group discussions?

I'm living in a third city since I've start to edit OSM so there are local friends in my list, friends from the places where I used to live before, some of the contacts from conferences all in one list. 

I'm trying to get in touch with local mappers around me, and writing 30+ letters to invite people the meetup is quite cumbersome.

So as a first step, can we create some way of grouping friends in a contact list?
As a second step, can we discuss how to invite a group of people to discuss something all together without third party tools?

--
Best regards,
Dmitry
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Re: osm.org groups

Дмитрий Киселев
Hi Simon,

the development itself is not a can work on that in my spare time, and i think others.

But if i just do that and send a pull request, chances that it will be rejected as the previous one, are quite high.

There are not so many devs who are willing to participate, but if the work goes in vain - it's zero. 

That's why i want to discuss how we want groups to work before any development.

I can create an issue and do that there, if github issues discussions works better.

Ср, 1 мая 2019, 7:21 Simon Poole <[hidden email]>:

See https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/297

Unluckily nobody has been motivated enough to do this on their own time, and the OSMF has been steadfastly ignoring any suggestions to undertake any effort to improve the website by spending money.

With other words: holding your breath for this feature is not recommend.

Simon

Am 30.04.2019 um 22:48 schrieb Svetlana Tkachenko:
Hi Dmitry

Perhaps these features can be useful for the Libreplanet wiki as well.

Svetlana

Дмитрий Киселев <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I know that making a good working groups is hard and only facebook succeed in that, and that's why we don't have any way to group users or friends at osm.org

But can we have at lest something, maybe not so great as slack or fb, 
but anything to group contacts in friends list and create some sort of 
local mailing list or group discussions?

I'm living in a third city since I've start to edit OSM so there are local friends in my list, friends from the places where I used to live before, some of the contacts from conferences all in one list. 

I'm trying to get in touch with local mappers around me, and writing 30+ letters to invite people the meetup is quite cumbersome.

So as a first step, can we create some way of grouping friends in a contact list?
As a second step, can we discuss how to invite a group of people to discuss something all together without third party tools?

--
Best regards,
Dmitry
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Re: osm.org groups

Richard Fairhurst
Дмитрий Киселев wrote:
> But if i just do that and send a pull request, chances that it will
> be rejected as the previous one, are quite high.

The previous one wasn't rejected - it just went stale because no-one was
able to finish it (personally I remember getting stuck on pagination), and
the osm.org codebase inevitably diverged sufficiently that it'd be hard to
re-integrate it.

There's still lots of enthusiasm for having groups on osm.org. Feel free to
drop in on IRC (#osm on OFTC), or here or wherever, if you'd like to talk
through how it could work.

cheers
Richard



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Re: osm.org groups

Дмитрий Киселев
Hi Richard, 

hmm I've got an impression that previous pull wasn't accepted because there wasn't 
a common sense that we want this functionality.

Great that I'm wrong. I'll take a look on old pull request.

ср, 1 мая 2019 г. в 09:45, Richard Fairhurst <[hidden email]>:
Дмитрий Киселев wrote:
> But if i just do that and send a pull request, chances that it will
> be rejected as the previous one, are quite high.

The previous one wasn't rejected - it just went stale because no-one was
able to finish it (personally I remember getting stuck on pagination), and
the osm.org codebase inevitably diverged sufficiently that it'd be hard to
re-integrate it.

There's still lots of enthusiasm for having groups on osm.org. Feel free to
drop in on IRC (#osm on OFTC), or here or wherever, if you'd like to talk
through how it could work.

cheers
Richard



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Dmitry

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Re: osm.org groups

Дмитрий Киселев

ср, 1 мая 2019 г. в 09:52, Дмитрий Киселев <[hidden email]>:
Hi Richard, 

hmm I've got an impression that previous pull wasn't accepted because there wasn't 
a common sense that we want this functionality.

Great that I'm wrong. I'll take a look on old pull request.

ср, 1 мая 2019 г. в 09:45, Richard Fairhurst <[hidden email]>:
Дмитрий Киселев wrote:
> But if i just do that and send a pull request, chances that it will
> be rejected as the previous one, are quite high.

The previous one wasn't rejected - it just went stale because no-one was
able to finish it (personally I remember getting stuck on pagination), and
the osm.org codebase inevitably diverged sufficiently that it'd be hard to
re-integrate it.

There's still lots of enthusiasm for having groups on osm.org. Feel free to
drop in on IRC (#osm on OFTC), or here or wherever, if you'd like to talk
through how it could work.

cheers
Richard



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Dmitry


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Dmitry

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Re: osm.org groups

Jiri Vlasak
In reply to this post by Дмитрий Киселев
I understand. My concerns are about scalability and sustainability. Also, I
don't like merging services like maps with social network.

Therefore I think that if you run local Diaspora* with OAuth over osm.org it
less work and better scalability/sustainability.

Ofcourse it's just idea.

Have a nice day,
jiri

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 01:53:38AM -0300, Дмитрий Киселев wrote:

> I suppose there are not so many of us who wants a social network. Just a
> couple of more convenient instruments for communication which are built in.
>
> Пн, 20 мая 2019, 14:32 Jiri Vlasak <[hidden email]>:
>
> > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 10:18:46AM -0300, Дмитрий Киселев wrote:
> > > We already have hacked mail lists.
> > >
> > > I'm working on getting original pull request back to work, but its going
> > > quite slow.
> >
> > The question was more philosophic. The problem I see with OSM is that it's
> > map,
> > not a social network. But I may be wrong.
> >
> > > Пн, 20 мая 2019, 5:55 Jiri Hubacek <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > út 30. 4. 2019 v 17:19 odesílatel Дмитрий Киселев <
> > > > [hidden email]> napsal:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi everyone,
> > > >> I know that making a good working groups is hard and only facebook
> > > >> succeed in that, and that's why we don't have any way to group users
> > or
> > > >> friends at osm.org
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > What about this idea: Hack already existing social network like
> > Diaspora*
> > > > to enable authentication over osm.org?
> > > >
> >

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Re: osm.org groups

Mikel Maron-3
btw, more discussion on the groups concept at https://github.com/osmlab/osm-planning/issues/1

Personally, I think that https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index has picked up a lot of what "groups" were intended to cover (a system for defining location based ones anyway). I don't think replicating forum type functionality directly in osm.org is valuable. What could be cool is a way to associate your user with communities in the index, and then get filtered views of mapping and user activity, and links to communication channels.

On the topic of spending money on development, I don't speak for the Board here, but I don't see why we wouldn't at least entertain any serious proposal put forward (and by that I mean specifics on what would be built, evidence of discussion and by in by community, what kind of resources it would take). This kind of thing may also perfectly fit within microgrants (which we still want to do, but also need the time to finalize).

-Mikel

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 4:29:16 AM EDT, Jiri Vlasak <[hidden email]> wrote:


I understand. My concerns are about scalability and sustainability. Also, I
don't like merging services like maps with social network.

Therefore I think that if you run local Diaspora* with OAuth over osm.org it
less work and better scalability/sustainability.

Ofcourse it's just idea.

Have a nice day,
jiri

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 01:53:38AM -0300, Дмитрий Киселев wrote:

> I suppose there are not so many of us who wants a social network. Just a
> couple of more convenient instruments for communication which are built in.
>
> Пн, 20 мая 2019, 14:32 Jiri Vlasak <[hidden email]>:
>
> > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 10:18:46AM -0300, Дмитрий Киселев wrote:
> > > We already have hacked mail lists.
> > >
> > > I'm working on getting original pull request back to work, but its going
> > > quite slow.
> >
> > The question was more philosophic. The problem I see with OSM is that it's
> > map,
> > not a social network. But I may be wrong.
> >
> > > Пн, 20 мая 2019, 5:55 Jiri Hubacek <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > út 30. 4. 2019 v 17:19 odesílatel Дмитрий Киселев <
> > > > [hidden email]> napsal:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi everyone,
> > > >> I know that making a good working groups is hard and only facebook
> > > >> succeed in that, and that's why we don't have any way to group users
> > or
> > > >> friends at osm.org
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > What about this idea: Hack already existing social network like
> > Diaspora*
> > > > to enable authentication over osm.org?
> > > >
> >

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Re: osm.org groups

Martijn van Exel-3
I think it would for two reasons. Most importantly osm.org is the only place that the entire community connects with and trusts. Secondly, it could enable things like group messaging for which no appetite exists to enable it through the API.

On May 21, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:

 I don't think replicating forum type functionality directly in osm.org is valuable. 


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rel="me" | Re: osm.org groups

ebel
In reply to this post by Mikel Maron-3
On 21/05/2019 21:19, Mikel Maron wrote:
> What could be cool is a way to associate your user with communities
> in the index

One approach for this is to allow uses to put (an arbitrary number of)
rel="me" links on their OSM.org user page, which link to that user's
profiles on other sites. Mastodon supports this and if you put a link on
your mastodon profile to another page, it checks for rel=me (pointing
back to the user's mastodon page), then you get a soothing green tick.
Currently OSM.org strips that 'rel="me"' attribute from links in your
profile page.

http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-me
https://docs.joinmastodon.org/usage/basics/#link-verification
https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/pull/8703



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Re: osm.org groups

Richard Fairhurst
In reply to this post by Mikel Maron-3
Mikel Maron wrote:
> Personally, I think that https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index 
> has picked up a lot of what "groups" were intended to cover (a system for
> defining location based ones anyway).

For me, the big value in groups-on-osm has always been that it would enable
ad hoc communities to form around interests and localities.

I'm honestly never going to get round to the hassle of setting up and
announcing a new community somewhere for UK cycle mapping or for "let's make
National Parks really well mapped this month" or for West Oxfordshire or for
whatever. But if OSM surfaces people already working in this space and their
edits, and provides a way for us to come together, bam, we have a
discoverable community after two clicks.

The second win is that we're all already here. Ask anyone and you'll get
differing views about lists/Facebook/Slack/Twitter/IRC/forums/Reddit/contd.
p94. It's not even consistent within particular interests or regions. But
all OSM mappers are, by definition, on osm.org.

Richard



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