"Fresh" map

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"Fresh" map

Peter O'Doherty
Hi list,

Is it possible to create a fresh (offline) map of a geographical
location, a village or a neighbourhood for example, for use in an
educational project where children create the map from scratch (using
gps)? As opposed to editing or adding to an already existing map?

Many thanks,
Peter

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Re: "Fresh" map

Serge Wroclawski-2
The short answer:

Yes.

The medium answer is:

Yes, but doing this is going to be a much larger project than I think
you imagine it would be.

The longer answer is:

Yes, but maybe throw out the OSM tools and use something more simple.

If you will release all the material for this project under a Free
Culture license, I will happily help you on the software side of this.

- Serge

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Re: "Fresh" map

Peter O'Doherty
Hi Serge,

Thanks for your very helpful and generous reply.

On 01/14/2014 04:29 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> The longer answer is:
>
> Yes, but maybe throw out the OSM tools and use something more simple.

Do you mean not using OSM at all but another software? If so, which?

> If you will release all the material for this project under a Free
> Culture license, I will happily help you on the software side of this.

Yes, of course. I'm more than happy to release all the material under a
free license.

Should we continue this conversation off-list?

Best wishes,
Peter

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Re: "Fresh" map

SomeoneElse
In reply to this post by Peter O'Doherty
Peter O'Doherty wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> Is it possible to create a fresh (offline) map of a geographical
> location, a village or a neighbourhood for example, for use in an
> educational project where children create the map from scratch (using
> gps)? As opposed to editing or adding to an already existing map?
>
> Many thanks,
> Peter
>

Something that I've suggested in the past to new mappers to enable them
to "get the hang of things" prior to editing the live data is the test
server:

http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/

Unless you live somewhere where there's been data testing, there's to be
likely no data where you're interested in mapping, so it might be a
possibility.  As a test server there are no service guarantees (and no
guarantees that all the data won't be wiped at some point in the
future), so you'd need to be aware of that, and you'd need to render a
map from the data yourself since there isn't (as far as I'm aware) a
rendering of the data that's on the api06 dev server anywhere.

Also, it might be worth checking with the server admins in the #osm-dev
IRC channel to make sure that they were OK with this use of it, but if
it draws new mappers into the project, I can see benefits of using it
for this.

Cheers,

Andy




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Re: "Fresh" map

Serge Wroclawski-2
In reply to this post by Peter O'Doherty
I mean that the OSM stack is quite a complex set of software. You have
the API, the editors, the renderer, etc.

You'd have to replicate all of that. As a professional sys-admin with
over a decade of experience, I could do that, but even for me, it'd be
significant work. If I wasn't a professional, I wouldn't undertake it.

What I'd do instead is start more simply, do some simple collection
with software that marks things as GPX points and then use something
like, say Leaflet, to turn that vector data into a map. The nice thing
is if you do this, you can use OSM as an underlay (display your data
on top of it).

Or if you wanted to get really fancy, than that vector data into
shapefile, and feed it into Tilemill, but I suspect that'd be
unnecessarily complex for a school class- unless it's a high school or
college level course.

- Serge

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Re: "Fresh" map

Peter O'Doherty
Thanks Serge and Andy for your advice.

I don't have the technical skills or knowledge of OSM to undertake a
project of the scope my original idea seems to entail. Therefore I think
I need to go back to the drawing board and simplify.

My alternative idea was the software equivalent of "tracing" where one
uses, say, tracing paper (or sheet of perspex) laid on top of a paper
map - the new map is drawn on the paper using the map underneath as a
guide and when finished, after removal of the original map, you're left
with a simplified map.

Is this doable? Annotations, notes, locations of interest, paths, (sound
files?), layered over an existing map and at the end of the process the
original map is deleted leaving the annotations alone.

Many thanks,
Peter



On 01/14/2014 05:16 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:

> I mean that the OSM stack is quite a complex set of software. You have
> the API, the editors, the renderer, etc.
>
> You'd have to replicate all of that. As a professional sys-admin with
> over a decade of experience, I could do that, but even for me, it'd be
> significant work. If I wasn't a professional, I wouldn't undertake it.
>
> What I'd do instead is start more simply, do some simple collection
> with software that marks things as GPX points and then use something
> like, say Leaflet, to turn that vector data into a map. The nice thing
> is if you do this, you can use OSM as an underlay (display your data
> on top of it).
>
> Or if you wanted to get really fancy, than that vector data into
> shapefile, and feed it into Tilemill, but I suspect that'd be
> unnecessarily complex for a school class- unless it's a high school or
> college level course.
>
> - Serge
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>


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Re: "Fresh" map

Craig Wallace
In reply to this post by Peter O'Doherty
On 2014-01-14 14:59, Peter O'Doherty wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> Is it possible to create a fresh (offline) map of a geographical
> location, a village or a neighbourhood for example, for use in an
> educational project where children create the map from scratch (using
> gps)? As opposed to editing or adding to an already existing map?

You could use JOSM, and just save your edits as an .osm file on your
computer (without uploading to openstreetmap.org).
Then use something like Maperitive to render a map from this.

The disadvantages are you need to load the complete file into JOSM or
Maperitive, so you are limited by how much memory you have. But should
be fine for a reasonable size village or neighbourhood.
Plus if you are using multiple computers, you will have to copy the file
between them (maybe use Dropbox or similar for this). And best to avoid
multiple people editing at once, otherwise you end up with conflicting
versions.

Craig

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Re: "Fresh" map

Serge Wroclawski-2
In reply to this post by Peter O'Doherty
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Peter O'Doherty <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks Serge and Andy for your advice.
>
> I don't have the technical skills or knowledge of OSM to undertake a project
> of the scope my original idea seems to entail. Therefore I think I need to
> go back to the drawing board and simplify.
>

> My alternative idea was the software equivalent of "tracing" where one uses,
> say, tracing paper (or sheet of perspex) laid on top of a paper map - the
> new map is drawn on the paper using the map underneath as a guide and when
> finished, after removal of the original map, you're left with a simplified
> map.

What is the age of the kids?

If they're young enough, I think there's value in teaching them how to
make the map itself the way a renderer does- with lines, and then
drawing them in (think graph paper).

There are a couple of tools to trace paper maps. There's the famous
one Field Papers, which works in conjuction with OSM.

There's this new tool
http://www.gislounge.com/automating-extracting-gis-data-scanned-maps/

But honestly, I think you could do a lot with just collecting data
with GPSes, traces, and then displaying that as vector data.

How old are the kids?

- Serge

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Re: "Fresh" map

ianmac nz
I would suggest you take a incremental approach.

1) Graph paper and a compass, get them to do a traditional survey, where they measure distances (paces) and angles (compass) and plot this on graph paper.

2) Repeat the exercise - this time with a GPS.

3) As per Craig's Suggestion - then use JOSM to go digital, import the traces, digitise from air photos, with an off-line .osm file.

4) After that they should be well qualified to get their own OSM accounts and start contributing to the shared map!

good luck.


On 15 January 2014 05:04, Serge Wroclawski <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Peter O'Doherty <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks Serge and Andy for your advice.
>
> I don't have the technical skills or knowledge of OSM to undertake a project
> of the scope my original idea seems to entail. Therefore I think I need to
> go back to the drawing board and simplify.
>

> My alternative idea was the software equivalent of "tracing" where one uses,
> say, tracing paper (or sheet of perspex) laid on top of a paper map - the
> new map is drawn on the paper using the map underneath as a guide and when
> finished, after removal of the original map, you're left with a simplified
> map.

What is the age of the kids?

If they're young enough, I think there's value in teaching them how to
make the map itself the way a renderer does- with lines, and then
drawing them in (think graph paper).

There are a couple of tools to trace paper maps. There's the famous
one Field Papers, which works in conjuction with OSM.

There's this new tool
http://www.gislounge.com/automating-extracting-gis-data-scanned-maps/

But honestly, I think you could do a lot with just collecting data
with GPSes, traces, and then displaying that as vector data.

How old are the kids?

- Serge

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Re: "Fresh" map

John Werner

Hello,

Viking  (http://viking.sf.net) may be a good place to start.  I have used it to create maps for various events.  The software uses a  layer paradigm:  you can stack different layers of data.  Normally I use it with an OSM map as the bottom layer them overlay routes and points of interest.  For the school application, you could leave out the map layer and just have them out in points.  Later, as a check, you could add an actual map layer to see how close they came.




From: ianmac nz <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tue Jan 14 19:40:04 EST 2014
To: Help for newbie mappers <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSM-newbies] "Fresh" map

I would suggest you take a incremental approach.

1) Graph paper and a compass, get them to do a traditional survey, where they measure distances (paces) and angles (compass) and plot this on graph paper.

2) Repeat the exercise - this time with a GPS.

3) As per Craig's Suggestion - then use JOSM to go digital, import the traces, digitise from air photos, with an off-line .osm file.

4) After that they should be well qualified to get their own OSM accounts and start contributing to the shared map!

good luck.


On 15 January 2014 05:04, Serge Wroclawski <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Peter O'Doherty <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks Serge and Andy for your advice.
>
> I don't have the technical skills or knowledge of OSM to undertake a project
> of the scope my original idea seems to entail. Therefore I think I need to
> go back to the drawing board and simplify.
>

> My alternative idea was the software equivalent of "tracing" where one uses,
> say, tracing paper (or sheet of perspex) laid on top of a paper map - the
> new map is drawn on the paper using the map underneath as a guide and when
> finished, after removal of the original map, you're left with a simplified
> map.

What is the age of the kids?

If they're young enough, I think there's value in teaching them how to
make the map itself the way a renderer does- with lines, and then
drawing them in (think graph paper).

There are a couple of tools to trace paper maps. There's the famous
one Field Papers, which works in conjuction with OSM.

There's this new tool
http://www.gislounge.com/automating-extracting-gis-data-scanned-maps/

But honestly, I think you could do a lot with just collecting data
with GPSes, traces, and then displaying that as vector data.

How old are the kids?

- Serge

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Sent from Kaiten Mail on my Android Tablet. Please excuse my brevity.
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