should we migrate to osm forum

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should we migrate to osm forum

Luke Woolley
Hey guys. I've been on OpenStreetMap for a few months editing and browsing the archives of the mailing list. I joined the list just so I can participate in this topic. I believe that currently, communication between OpenStreetMap users is restricted by the means of different ways of communicating (mailing lists, forum, user diaries, private messages via the main OSM site)
 
I believe they should all be combined into one forum. That way you can link your email account to topics or sub-forums you are interested in, send and receive private messages as well as just general conversation.

OpenStreetMap can be even more efficient and successful than it currently is if all means of communication are central. Also, it is confusing to new users how to communicate with other members. You basicly have to google search for ways to communicate with other mappers. (I know I had to).

Just my two cents, albeit strong.


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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

Liz
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, Luke Woolley wrote:
> OpenStreetMap can be even more efficient and successful than it currently
> is if all means of communication are central.

Easy, lets all go email



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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

Sjors
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, Luke Woolley wrote:
>> OpenStreetMap can be even more efficient and successful than it currently
>> is if all means of communication are central.
>
> Easy, lets all go email

I also prefer mail, because it keeps all my communication in one spot
and allows me to mute conversations, filter, etc.

Sjors / George

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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

Sam Couter-2
Sjors Provoost <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I also prefer mail, because it keeps all my communication in one spot
> and allows me to mute conversations, filter, etc.

Even more important, with email *I* get to choose the UI. With forum
software, somebody else makes that choice for me, and it's always bad.
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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

Luke Woolley
I think that it all comes down to what is accessible to most people. I realise some of you are comfortable with the current setup of the mailing lists. I have to admit, this mailing list was the first "mailing list" I have ever heard of. It is just the way it is nowadays. Most websites use forums and they are the "standard" for communication on websites. I think that we need to make sacrifices for the sake of the OpenStreetMap project as a whole. And i'm talking about the whole OSM mailing list. Not just the aussie one. We risk not growing up the right way by sticking with the current means of communication.

The first thing I noticed that was abit off about OSM was the communication side of things. You have Private messages on the main page, user diaries on the main page (a good idea in theory, but poorly executed) the trac (I do realise this is different to general communication), the wiki (again, this is more a reference than a general communication tool BUT it is being used for general OSM discussion via articles created for that sole purpose), the forum and the mailing lists.
 
As a short-long term goal for the OpenStreetMap project, it is essental to have an efficient and welcoming means of communication. By having just the main page on its own, a forum (with software which can closely replicate the mailing lists as much as possible to reduce transition mess) which is intergrated with the user diaries (your own OSM blog) and private messages, the wiki as a reference for OSM development and guidelines and the trac for managing code and squashing bugs.
 
Am I the only one who believes this is a serious issue that needs to be brought to attention and put on the table for serious consideration with informed decsions made? Does anyone agree we cannot continue like this forever?
 
P.S. Off-topic but sorry if I'm stuffing up the threads. I don't know how to reply to the original topic without directly replying to someone else.

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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

Liz
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Luke Woolley wrote:
> Am I the only one who believes this is a serious issue that needs to be
> brought to attention and put on the table for serious consideration with
> informed decsions made? Does anyone agree we cannot continue like this
> forever?

No, but as persons who don't have to slavishly follow fashion, some of us are
really happy with mailing list communication.
To be honest, as well as a 50+ hour week, I subscribe to 18 mailing lists, and
use a mail reader which sorts everything into its place. I know which lists
to read first and which can left to last.
Of the forums I belong to, none get seen daily.
I have to actively 'attend' the forum, click on the posts and read them,
waiting for download of the post and every graphic on the page.

Please consider David's suggestion, to read the mailing list through
nabble.org or gmane.org.

Then we can move everything to the mailing list, tell forum likers to use
nabble or gmane and have just two input points - the forum and the wiki.

Liz


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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

Ross Scanlon
Agree with Liz.

Two forums I do visit usually only get a visit once every two to three weeks yet I check emails and answer/reply daily.

Cheers
Ross
 

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:58:34 +1000
Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Luke Woolley wrote:
> > Am I the only one who believes this is a serious issue that needs to be
> > brought to attention and put on the table for serious consideration with
> > informed decsions made? Does anyone agree we cannot continue like this
> > forever?
>
> No, but as persons who don't have to slavishly follow fashion, some of us are
> really happy with mailing list communication.
> To be honest, as well as a 50+ hour week, I subscribe to 18 mailing lists, and
> use a mail reader which sorts everything into its place. I know which lists
> to read first and which can left to last.
> Of the forums I belong to, none get seen daily.
> I have to actively 'attend' the forum, click on the posts and read them,
> waiting for download of the post and every graphic on the page.
>
> Please consider David's suggestion, to read the mailing list through
> nabble.org or gmane.org.
>
> Then we can move everything to the mailing list, tell forum likers to use
> nabble or gmane and have just two input points - the forum and the wiki.
>
> Liz
>
>
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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

Kim Hawtin-2
Ross Scanlon wrote:
> Agree with Liz.

Email is a lot more convenient and its a lot faster to use and check new messages.
If you don't have a mail account, get a gmail account.
Gmail deals with lists well and the groups are pretty good too.

> Two forums I do visit usually only get a visit once every two to three weeks yet I check emails and answer/reply daily.

I used to be a member of a lot of forums over the last ten years, most of those communities have now migrated to mail lists.

regards,

Kim
--
Operating Systems, Services and Operations
Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide
[hidden email]

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FW: should we migrate to osm forum

Luke Woolley
In reply to this post by Luke Woolley
Ok, i'm trying this reply again as it didn't work the first time.

> >
> > This is exactly what I wish to believe. I'm not ranting on about how I want
> > everyone to move to the forums to make me happy. I want a all-in-one
> > communication solution for OpenStreetMap that satisfies the needs of
> > everyone. But i can only see that as being a pipedream unless some
> > programmers come along wanting to offer their services for such a solution.
> >
> > <html><DIV></DIV></html>
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:20:09 +1000
> >> From: [hidden email]
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] should we migrate to osm forum
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Luke Woolley <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > As a short-long term goal for the OpenStreetMap project, it is essental
> >> > to
> >> > have an efficient and welcoming means of communication. By having just
> >> > the
> >> > main page on its own, a forum (with software which can closely replicate
> >> > the
> >> > mailing lists as much as possible to reduce transition mess) which is
> >> > intergrated with the user diaries (your own OSM blog) and private
> >> > messages,
> >> > the wiki as a reference for OSM development and guidelines and the trac
> >> > for
> >> > managing code and squashing bugs.
> >>
> >> I agree the current system is a bit confusing for newcomers. Even more
> >> so for some of the International components I might add. It might be
> >> a good idea to get a 'professional' usability expert from outside to
> >> volunteer to take a look at the project. Does anyone know one?
> >>
> >> More specifically about the mailing lists: does anyone know a tool that:
> >> * is an online forum, with threads and whatever 'forum people' like
> >> * is a mailinglist: with threads and where you can still use the reply
> >> function
> >>
> >> > P.S. Off-topic but sorry if I'm stuffing up the threads. I don't know
> >> > how to
> >> > reply to the original topic without directly replying to someone else.
> >>
> >> You would have to reply to the original message.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Sjors
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Find out: SEEK Salary Centre Are you paid what you're worth?



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Re: FW: should we migrate to osm forum

Liz
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Luke Woolley wrote:
> 'professional' usability expert from outside to> >> volunteer to take a
> look at the project. Does anyone know one?> >>> >> More specifically about
> the mailing lists: does anyone know a tool that:> >> * is an online forum,
> with threads and whatever 'forum people' like> >> * is a mailinglist: with
> threads and where you can still use the reply> >> function> >>> >> > P.S.
> Off-topic but sorry if I'm stuffing up the threads. I don't know> >> > how
> to> >> > reply to the original topic without directly replying to someone
> else.> >>> >> You would have to reply to the original message.> >>> >>
> Cheers,> >>> >> Sjors> >> >> > _________________________

I get it
Your problem is hotmail.
Yes, hotmail and mailing lists don't match well.
Get someone to introduce you for a gmail account

or

sign up at nabble / gmane

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Re: FW: should we migrate to osm forum

Sam Couter-2
In reply to this post by Luke Woolley
Luke Woolley <[hidden email]> wrote:
[ wall of text and other stuff deleted ]

Luke, you're doing a good job of demonstrating the main argument against
mailing lists: Poor mail clients. You need to choose a better one.
--
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Re: FW: should we migrate to osm forum

Liz
In reply to this post by Luke Woolley
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Luke Woolley wrote:
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] should we migrate to osm forum> >>> >> On Wed, Jun
> 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Luke Woolley <[hidden email]>> >> wrote:> >>>
> >> > As a short-long term goal for the OpenStreetMap project, it is
> essental> >> > to> >> > have an efficient and welcoming means of
> communication. By having just> >> > the> >> > main page on its own, a forum
> (with software which can closely replicate> >> > the> >> > mailing lists as
> much as possible to reduce transition mess) which is> >> > intergrated with
> the user diaries (your own OSM blog) and private> >> > messages,>

Ok, I've amended the wiki to state that we meet here, and giving the gmane
archive of the list as the contact for those who would like forum method.
No, we can't yet integrate the blogs and private messages.

Liz

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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

Ben Kelley-4
In reply to this post by Kim Hawtin-2
Hi.

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Kim Hawtin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Email is a lot more convenient and its a lot faster to use and check new messages.
If you don't have a mail account, get a gmail account.
Gmail deals with lists well and the groups are pretty good too.

Contrary to a previous message on this topic, a lot of employers block personal e-mail  (e.g. gmail) because they are worried about liability.

Although the fact that the login to the OSM forum is synced to the OSM login, I think the OSM forum is a bit .... feature poor. e.g. No RSS. Although I like forums in general, in this case I vote for staying with e-mail.

 - Ben.

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Re: should we migrate to osm forum

mtrax
Online forum has been created, you can logon using your OSM userid

direct link => http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=24

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Re: FW: should we migrate to osm forum

Luke W. (lakeyboy)
In reply to this post by Liz
OK, I am using Nabble now so things should be hunky dory. I'm also on the new aussie sub-forum so 2 outlets of communication is fine in my book. :)

Liz-21 wrote
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Luke Woolley wrote:
> 'professional' usability expert from outside to> >> volunteer to take a
> look at the project. Does anyone know one?> >>> >> More specifically about
> the mailing lists: does anyone know a tool that:> >> * is an online forum,
> with threads and whatever 'forum people' like> >> * is a mailinglist: with
> threads and where you can still use the reply> >> function> >>> >> > P.S.
> Off-topic but sorry if I'm stuffing up the threads. I don't know> >> > how
> to> >> > reply to the original topic without directly replying to someone
> else.> >>> >> You would have to reply to the original message.> >>> >>
> Cheers,> >>> >> Sjors> >> >> > _________________________

I get it
Your problem is hotmail.
Yes, hotmail and mailing lists don't match well.
Get someone to introduce you for a gmail account

or

sign up at nabble / gmane

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