tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Allan Mustard

Exactly right.  Government has a legal monopoly on coercion, ranging from the death penalty to collection of taxes and enforcement of the barking dog ordinance in Fairfax County, Virginia.  Contractors do a lot of government work (in the United States, contractors outnumber direct-hire government employees by a ratio of 2.5:1) but their firms are or should be tagged office=company while the government offices where they may perform their duties should be tagged office=government.

I supervised a computer shop for two years.  One-third of my subordinates were direct-hire government employees.  Two-thirds worked for a private company with a government contract.  They shared offices and were virtually interchangeable.  The corporate headquarters was separate, and in my mind would have been tagged office=company.  My government office building (the South Agriculture Building, largest government office building in the District of Columbia at the time) would have been tagged office=ministry since USDA is a Cabinet department=ministry.

The bus company in Ashgabat is state-owned.  I have tagged its depot as a bus depot, not as a government office.  Function to me also plays a role.

apm


On 11/4/2018 8:42 PM, Colin Smale wrote:

The activity of a prison is on behalf of a government, pursuant to a statutory duty of the government to administer justice. That its operation is outsourced to a private company doesn't change that fact. You can't just start your own prison - it is a state monopoly.

Public transport may be a state monopoly, but sometimes it isn't. In the middle you have state regulation, which is the status in much of the UK. Anyone can start a bus company, but you need to register the route at least. (I think it might be a bit more complicated than that...) Providing free transport, well, I suppose anyone can make it free if they want, but the money has to come from somewhere...


On 2018-11-04 15:41, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



sent from a phone

On 4. Nov 2018, at 10:19, Allan Mustard <[hidden email]> wrote:

If it is a budget-dependent company/corporation, such as the Commodity Credit Corporation of the U.S. government, which generates no revenue of its own and relies wholly on appropriations from the U.S. Congress, yes, it should be tagged government.  As Deep Throat said, "Follow the money!"



 
I find this difficult, because it implies we define what is original government duty and what is not. Providing beer is apparently not a government job (any more?), providing healthcare might be (?), what about transportation? Is free public transportation a government duty? They surely wouldn't generate (at least direct) profits, and if the service isn't free it could still be financed by the government and not be profitable. Similarly the providing of energy, water, the treatment of waste. Europeans tend to see prisons as government sites, in the US prisons are often private.
 
Ciao, Martin 
 
 
 

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Warin
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
On 04/11/18 11:20, Paul Allen wrote:
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 12:10 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Question though (more for someone in Europe) - is a "Member of the European Parliament" elected, or just appointed by their home country? Are they a "politician" as such?

Elected.  They don't serve any useful purpose since the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats, but they're
elected.

Is there another overall term for elected people? (& yes, I can think of quite a few terms for them, but I don't think we should be marking any of them on the map! :-))

My local councillor is elected.  Is she counted in this scheme of things?  Local government is
government and getting elected is politics.  Even though it has US connotations, a general term
might be "representative."


office=government
government=constituency_office
or
government=politicians_office

??? 

Leaving is as office=government is too broad .. could encompass a taxation office.

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Colin Smale
In reply to this post by Paul Allen

On 2018-11-04 01:20, Paul Allen wrote:

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 12:10 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Question though (more for someone in Europe) - is a "Member of the European Parliament" elected, or just appointed by their home country? Are they a "politician" as such?
 
Elected.  They don't serve any useful purpose since the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats, but they're
elected.
 
Paul, please keep your personal politics out of this discussion.
 

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Paul Allen


On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 7:25 AM Colin Smale <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 2018-11-04 01:20, Paul Allen wrote:

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 12:10 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
Question though (more for someone in Europe) - is a "Member of the European Parliament" elected, or just appointed by their home country? Are they a "politician" as such?
 
Elected.  They don't serve any useful purpose since the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats, but they're
elected.
 
Paul, please keep your personal politics out of this discussion.


Although the European Parliament has legislative power that the Council and Commission do not possess, it does not formally possess legislative initiative, as most national parliaments of European Union member states do.

And then you can go down a twisty maze of Wikipedia articles to conclude that, as parliaments go,
the European Parliament is very limited in its powers but the bureaucracy is not.  Still, it counts
as elected representation for the purposes of the proposal.

BTW, I'm not going to insist you refrain from inferring my politics by what I wrote, merely point
out that you inferred incorrectly.  And that by mentioning it at all, you perpetuated this side-issue.

--
Paul


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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Warin
In reply to this post by Warin

I think I have firmed up on

office=government

with either

government=constituency_office
or
government=politicians_office

I'll start a proposal page .. I'd like a vote on which one, or if there
are any other ideas for a government= something else.



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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Paul Allen
On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 11:45 PM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think I have firmed up on

office=government

with either

government=constituency_office
or
government=politicians_office

I assume you're thinking of elected representatives.  Because they're usually the ones to make
legislation and therefore the ones to complain to when you have grievances you want the
government to redress.  But they're not the only ones.  And sometimes not the first point of
contact, either.

Some countries have an Ombudsman.  Many countries have regulatory agencies, such as
EPA, FDA , FCC, etc. in the US; OfCom, OfGem, OfWat, etc. in the UK.  Technically, in the UK,
one still has the right to petition Mrs Betty Windsor for the redress of personal grievances.

--
Paul


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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Warin
On 07/11/18 11:01, Paul Allen wrote:
On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 11:45 PM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think I have firmed up on

office=government

with either

government=constituency_office
or
government=politicians_office

I assume you're thinking of elected representatives.  Because they're usually the ones to make
legislation and therefore the ones to complain to when you have grievances you want the
government to redress.  But they're not the only ones. 

As the subject title says " tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament"?
 Note different places may use different words to describe their 'parliament' and/or 'local representative' .... lets not debate that, I have no interest in it.



What is your preference ?

government=constituency_office
or
government=politicians_office

???
Nothing in taginfo over 1 use that is suitable. 



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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Graeme Fitzpatrick

On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 10:13, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

As the subject title says " tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament"?
 Note different places may use different words to describe their 'parliament' and/or 'local representative'

Maybe change the title a little bit: "office of an elected official"?

government=constituency_office
or
government=politicians_office

???

To be honest, I'm not overly excited by either of them, but maybe the same thing could work?

government=elected_official

Thanks

Graeme 

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Warin
On 07/11/18 12:28, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 10:13, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

As the subject title says " tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament"?
 Note different places may use different words to describe their 'parliament' and/or 'local representative'

Maybe change the title a little bit: "office of an elected official"?

government=constituency_office
or
government=politicians_office

???

To be honest, I'm not overly excited by either of them, but maybe the same thing could work?

government=elected_official



I don't think all of them are elected ... House of Lords GB springs to mind. Possibly they don't have offices anyway :)

Elected official look to refer to the person, rather then a place to go to contact them.

?
I'm not that happy with either of them .. but have not though of something better.
Politician for me is slightly in front of constituency as it is in more common use so might be better understood/translated in other languages. 

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Allan Mustard
In reply to this post by Warin
I like constituency_office.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2018, at 4:44 AM, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I think I have firmed up on
>
> office=government
>
> with either
>
> government=constituency_office
> or
> government=politicians_office
>
> I'll start a proposal page .. I'd like a vote on which one, or if there are any other ideas for a government= something else.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Eugene Alvin Villar
On Nov 7, 2018 11:22 PM, "Allan Mustard" <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like constituency_office.

+1

FWIW, Wikidata has settled on the term "constituency" for this political concept (aka parliamentary seat, electoral district, legislative district, etc.): https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q192611

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick


sent from a phone

> On 7. Nov 2018, at 02:28, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Maybe change the title a little bit: "office of an elected official"?


maybe this goes too far?

Cheers, Martin

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Re: tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Allan Mustard
Even for a government bureaucrat like me it seems a bit wordy. :-)

On 11/12/2018 6:19 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote

>> On 7. Nov 2018, at 02:28, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe change the title a little bit: "office of an elected official"?
> maybe this goes too far?
>
> Cheers, Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
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