the steepest residential street in England

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the steepest residential street in England

Jez Nicholson
Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 but was beaten down because it is no longer open to traffic.

Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38568889

"the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised traffic"

Anyone going to have a go?

Regards,
             Jez

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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Paul Berry
I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40%

Regards,
Paul

On 11 January 2017 at 12:23, Jez Nicholson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 but was beaten down because it is no longer open to traffic.

Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38568889

"the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised traffic"

Anyone going to have a go?

Regards,
             Jez

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Re: the steepest residential street in England

sk53.osm
Now the question is a) is there any Lidar data; and b) has John Murray processed it!


On 11 January 2017 at 14:06, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40%

Regards,
Paul

On 11 January 2017 at 12:23, Jez Nicholson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 but was beaten down because it is no longer open to traffic.

Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38568889

"the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised traffic"

Anyone going to have a go?

Regards,
             Jez

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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Jez Nicholson
Google is telling me Hardknott Pass and Rosedale Chimney Bank at 33% for England.

They used to do hill-climb car racing up Porlock Hill in Exmoor but that is reported as a mere 25%

I can't help but think that there are some short side-roads that are steeper. They may also have further criteria for the 'World Record'.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 at 14:37 SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Now the question is a) is there any Lidar data; and b) has John Murray processed it!


On 11 January 2017 at 14:06, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40%

Regards,
Paul

On 11 January 2017 at 12:23, Jez Nicholson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 but was beaten down because it is no longer open to traffic.

Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38568889

"the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised traffic"

Anyone going to have a go?

Regards,
             Jez

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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Dave F
In reply to this post by sk53.osm

On 11/01/2017 14:37, SK53 wrote:
> Now the question is a) is there any Lidar data; and b) has John Murray
> processed it!
>

...Or if, indeed, it is in England.

DaveF

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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Dave F
In reply to this post by Jez Nicholson

On 11/01/2017 18:18, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> Google is telling me Hardknott Pass and Rosedale Chimney Bank at 33%
> for England.
>
> They used to do hill-climb car racing up Porlock Hill in Exmoor but
> that is reported as a mere 25%
>
> I can't help but think that there are some short side-roads that are
> steeper. They may also have further criteria for the 'World Record'.
>

Indeed, "criteria" is paramount. Porlock & one in my vicinity is marked
as only 25%. I'm pretty sure sections within them are a bit steeper than
that. Can anyone clarify that it's an average over the whole rise or the
maximum gradient?

DaveF.

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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Robert Norris

Ffordd_Pen_Llech is steep but it's one way (down), so if you're looking for challenge to go up it on your bicycle you have to do so illegally.

Apparently Vale Street (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32024547) in Bristol is meant to be very steep, but I don't know the incline. (Doesn't seem to have incline posted looking at GSV. DaveF: Was this the road you were thinking of or something in Bath?)

The posted incline (at least in the UK) is the maximum gradient.
This is also the definition used in OSM, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:incline

Note that they mostly seem to be signed as 20%, 25% & 33% & 40% - so mostly a percentage version of the 1 in 5, 1 in 4, 1 in 3 gradients.
Thus you don't tend to get gradients of 22%, 23% etc...
So it seems the posted value is often rounded one way or another and certainly cycling up differing hills I've found some seem easier/harder than expected given the signed value.

An interesting list of steep roads is here:
https://roadcyclinguk.com/sportive/ten-uks-steepest-climbs.html/

Previously this steepest road question has been pondered several times. One interesting thread is here:
http://www.intelligentanswers.co.uk/index.php?topic=2962.0

Notionally the average gradient could be worked out fairly easy with reasonable SRTM or better LIDAR data or possibly given a number of GPX files to analyse - although I don't know whether any of these methods would give an accurate enough answer to be of comparable use.
Certainly for shorter (i.e. residential rather than long mountain/big hill climbs) road (such as Vale Street) the margin in error of the elevation readings will be considerable compared to the road length such that the calculated gradients could be very unreliable.

Some work on trying to auto calculate gradients can be found here: https://github.com/nautoguide/gradient_markers

--
Be Seeing You - Rob.
If at first you don't succeed,
then skydiving isn't for you.

________________________________________
From: Dave F <[hidden email]>
Sent: 11 January 2017 22:04:03
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England

On 11/01/2017 18:18, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> Google is telling me Hardknott Pass and Rosedale Chimney Bank at 33%
> for England.
>
> They used to do hill-climb car racing up Porlock Hill in Exmoor but
> that is reported as a mere 25%
>
> I can't help but think that there are some short side-roads that are
> steeper. They may also have further criteria for the 'World Record'.
>

Indeed, "criteria" is paramount. Porlock & one in my vicinity is marked
as only 25%. I'm pretty sure sections within them are a bit steeper than
that. Can anyone clarify that it's an average over the whole rise or the
maximum gradient?

DaveF.

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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Mike Evans
In reply to this post by Paul Berry
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:06:32 +0000
Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40%
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffordd_Pen_Llech
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/71230443
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
But the question states *England* and since Harlech is in Wales in doesn't qualify. :)

Lost(in Wales)Mike


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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Paul Berry
I'm only too aware of that, long after I posted. Bit embarrassing for someone who looks at maps for fun.

Regards,
Paul

On 12 January 2017 at 09:46, Mike Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:06:32 +0000
Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40%
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffordd_Pen_Llech
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/71230443
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
But the question states *England* and since Harlech is in Wales in doesn't qualify. :)

Lost(in Wales)Mike


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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Dave Barter
In reply to this post by Jez Nicholson
I am slowing working through a project to answer this via data. My plan is to create an open data set of gradient markers for OSM and I’ve had some preliminary success



Message: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 11:38:01 +0000
From: Paul Berry <[hidden email]>
To: Mike Evans <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England
Message-ID:
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I'm only too aware of that, long after I posted. Bit embarrassing for
someone who looks at maps for fun.

Regards,
*Paul*

On 12 January 2017 at 09:46, Mike Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:06:32 +0000
Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:

I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffordd_Pen_Llech
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/71230443

Regards,
*Paul*

But the question states *England* and since Harlech is in Wales in doesn't
qualify. :)

Lost(in Wales)Mike


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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Dave F
In reply to this post by Robert Norris

On 12/01/2017 01:02, Robert Norris wrote:
> Ffordd_Pen_Llech is steep but it's one way (down), so if you're looking for challenge to go up it on your bicycle you have to do so illegally.
>
> Apparently Vale Street (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32024547) in Bristol is meant to be very steep, but I don't know the incline. (Doesn't seem to have incline posted looking at GSV. DaveF: Was this the road you were thinking of or something in Bath?)

Just outside:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3977312,-2.2940096,3a,88.4y,62.25h,61.15t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sedHvMRtPcF5jZw2uQdD4Hw!2e0

It may not be the steepest, but it gives your calf muscles a good work
out. That bend in the road is the real killer on a bike.

DaveF

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Re: the steepest residential street in England

John Sturdy
North Lane in Bath (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/2955824#map=19/51.37754/-2.33364) is very steep, but only side entrances to houses open onto it, so I'm not sure whether it counts fully as residential.

__John

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:42 AM, Dave F <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 12/01/2017 01:02, Robert Norris wrote:
Ffordd_Pen_Llech is steep but it's one way (down), so if you're looking for challenge to go up it on your bicycle you have to do so illegally.

Apparently Vale Street (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32024547) in Bristol is meant to be very steep, but I don't know the incline. (Doesn't seem to have incline posted looking at GSV. DaveF: Was this the road you were thinking of or something in Bath?)

Just outside:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3977312,-2.2940096,3a,88.4y,62.25h,61.15t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sedHvMRtPcF5jZw2uQdD4Hw!2e0

It may not be the steepest, but it gives your calf muscles a good work out. That bend in the road is the real killer on a bike.

DaveF


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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Jez Nicholson
That's pretty steep. 

I'm also thinking of Keere Street, Lewes https://goo.gl/maps/uBRWoaSXx122 but i'm sure that i've seen some ridiculous ones in tiny Cornish villages

On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 at 10:19 John Sturdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
North Lane in Bath (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/2955824#map=19/51.37754/-2.33364) is very steep, but only side entrances to houses open onto it, so I'm not sure whether it counts fully as residential.

__John

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:42 AM, Dave F <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 12/01/2017 01:02, Robert Norris wrote:
Ffordd_Pen_Llech is steep but it's one way (down), so if you're looking for challenge to go up it on your bicycle you have to do so illegally.

Apparently Vale Street (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32024547) in Bristol is meant to be very steep, but I don't know the incline. (Doesn't seem to have incline posted looking at GSV. DaveF: Was this the road you were thinking of or something in Bath?)

Just outside:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3977312,-2.2940096,3a,88.4y,62.25h,61.15t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sedHvMRtPcF5jZw2uQdD4Hw!2e0

It may not be the steepest, but it gives your calf muscles a good work out. That bend in the road is the real killer on a bike.

DaveF


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Re: the steepest residential street in England

Dave F
In reply to this post by Jez Nicholson
The results:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38568893

On 11/01/2017 12:23, Jez Nicholson wrote:
Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 but was beaten down because it is no longer open to traffic.

Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38568889

"the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised traffic"

Anyone going to have a go?

Regards,
             Jez


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