wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

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wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Richard Z.
Hi,

looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?

Richard

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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Philip Barnes
On Fri, 2019-01-04 at 21:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
> for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?

It is mentioned in the wiki under parking space

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space#Disabled_parking_and_other_access_restrictions

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Richard Z.
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?
 
carefully the definition of capacity: it is the TOTAL number of spaces INCLUDING disabled
spaces because an armchair mapper may be able to count parking bays but not discern
which (if any) are for disabled parking.

If you intend to mark actual parking spaces rather than just denote the car park as a whole,
proposal.

--
Paul


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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Warin
Possibly there needs to be a main wiki page for 'disabled' features tagging, toilets, tactile paving, parking, access.

On 05/01/19 07:58, Paul Allen wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?
 
carefully the definition of capacity: it is the TOTAL number of spaces INCLUDING disabled
spaces because an armchair mapper may be able to count parking bays but not discern
which (if any) are for disabled parking.

If you intend to mark actual parking spaces rather than just denote the car park as a whole,
proposal.

--
Paul



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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

PanierAvide-2

Hello,

The french community has started months ago creating this page in order to list tags around disabilities, and how to practically map associated features (and referencing "concurrent" tags when multiple schemes exists) :

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Handicaps/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rentiel

This is still a work in progress, but can give some ideas for creating such an entry page in english.

Regards,

Adrien.


Le 04/01/2019 à 23:22, Warin a écrit :
Possibly there needs to be a main wiki page for 'disabled' features tagging, toilets, tactile paving, parking, access.

On 05/01/19 07:58, Paul Allen wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?
 
carefully the definition of capacity: it is the TOTAL number of spaces INCLUDING disabled
spaces because an armchair mapper may be able to count parking bays but not discern
which (if any) are for disabled parking.

If you intend to mark actual parking spaces rather than just denote the car park as a whole,
proposal.

--
Paul



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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Georg Feddern-2
In reply to this post by Warin
Am 04.01.2019 um 23:22 schrieb Warin:
Possibly there needs to be a main wiki page for 'disabled' features tagging, toilets, tactile paving, parking, access.

On 05/01/19 07:58, Paul Allen wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?


Having a main page - and actualize it - is a really kind service.
BTW: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wheelchair _is_ such a main page.

But I do not understand, why people who look-and-not-found something in the wiki do not _search_ it.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=parking+disabled&title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=1&searchToken=43w1ocpu8z9o2545k2x9jn3vd
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=parking+wheelchair&title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=1&searchToken=bquqcdlt1bi3tzdtjohslf972

Regards
Georg

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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Richard Z.
On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 01:51:51PM +0100, Georg Feddern wrote:

> Am 04.01.2019 um 23:22 schrieb Warin:
> >Possibly there needs to be a main wiki page for 'disabled' features
> >tagging, toilets, tactile paving, parking, access.
> >
> >On 05/01/19 07:58, Paul Allen wrote:
> >>On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Richard <[hidden email]
> >><mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>    looking through the wiki can't find how parking space designated
> >>    for wheelchair/disabled users should be tagged?
> >>
> >>
>
> Having a main page - and actualize it - is a really kind service.
> BTW: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wheelchair _is_ such a main
> page.

yes and I have added your valuable input there.

> But I do not understand, why people who look-and-not-found something in the
> wiki do not _search_ it.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=parking+disabled&title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=1&searchToken=43w1ocpu8z9o2545k2x9jn3vd
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=parking+wheelchair&title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=1&searchToken=bquqcdlt1bi3tzdtjohslf972

because "disabled" was not mentioned very prominently in key:wheelchair before
I edited it. Even though I knew "disabled" it is just one of the many things
to try to search for and it simply didn't cross my mind. Btw for a computer
scientist "disabled" rings the wrong bells.

Richard

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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Paul Allen
On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 at 20:42, Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:

because "disabled" was not mentioned very prominently in key:wheelchair before
I edited it. Even though I knew "disabled" it is just one of the many things
to try to search for and it simply didn't cross my mind. Btw for a computer
scientist "disabled" rings the wrong bells.

You should bear in mind that requiring a wheelchair is just ONE form of disability that merits the
use of special parking or other facilities.  Which is why many people would search for "disabled"
rather than "wheelchair."  And why parking spaces, at least in the UK, are signed as "disabled
parking" (or "anabl" in Welsh).

--
Paul


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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Richard Z.
On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 08:52:58PM +0000, Paul Allen wrote:

> You should bear in mind that requiring a wheelchair is just ONE form of
> disability that merits the
> use of special parking or other facilities.  Which is why many people would
> search for "disabled"
> rather than "wheelchair."  And why parking spaces, at least in the UK, are
> signed as "disabled
> parking" (or "anabl" in Welsh).

yes, a list of synonyms like handicapped and redirects would make things easier
to find.
Or maybe a handicapped/disabled portal page.

I think many people start searching at the wheelchair page because it is
mentioned in many other wiki pages.

Richard



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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Richard Z.
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 08:52:58PM +0000, Paul Allen wrote:

noticed that there is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disabilities

This could be improved to add more details but I wonder if it would not
become too big? It looks overloaded already now.

Richard


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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Warin
On 06/01/19 09:29, Richard wrote:
On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 08:52:58PM +0000, Paul Allen wrote:

noticed that there is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disabilities

This could be improved to add more details but I wonder if it would not 
become too big? It looks overloaded already now.

Agreed it is overloaded ... and much of it is links to outside of OSMwiki. Not much use to an OSM mapper.

The page could be about those OSM tags that are relevant for Disabled features, 
how to map these things .. not about 'missing tags' nor "information relevant for disabled persons"
Perhaps a new page - "Mapping accessibility"? 
And it could start with something like "This page is only to document OSM tags of use to map features that provide accessibility for disabled people."

The format of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway could be used as a good start? 




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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

althio
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 at 00:31, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The page could be about those OSM tags that are relevant for Disabled features,
> how to map these things .. not about 'missing tags' nor "information relevant for disabled persons"
>
> Perhaps a new page - "Mapping accessibility"?
>
> The format of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway could be used as a good start?

For format and content, as already indicated earlier in this thread, a
good start might be:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Disabilities
and the work in progress at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Handicaps/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rentiel

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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Warin
On 09/01/19 21:06, althio wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 at 00:31, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The page could be about those OSM tags that are relevant for Disabled features,
>> how to map these things .. not about 'missing tags' nor "information relevant for disabled persons"
>>
>> Perhaps a new page - "Mapping accessibility"?
>>
>> The format of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway could be used as a good start?
> For format and content, as already indicated earlier in this thread, a
> good start might be:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Disabilities

No - that is a terrible page.

> and the work in progress at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Handicaps/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rentiel

Much better .. but unordered.


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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

PanierAvide-2
Le 10/01/2019 à 00:19, Warin a écrit :
>
> No - that is a terrible page.
>
>> and the work in progress at
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Handicaps/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rentiel
>
> Much better .. but unordered.

Hopefully we are using a wiki, this could be improved by anyone for sure ;-)

Regards,

Adrien.


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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Richard Z.
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
looked at the possibilities, one problem: many parking places are
fee=yes for normal users and fee=no for handicapped users.
How can this be mapped?

Richard


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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Xavier-2
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 09:41:13PM +0100, Richard wrote:
>looked at the possibilities, one problem: many parking places are
>fee=yes for normal users and fee=no for handicapped users.
>How can this be mapped?

If you look into the proposal page from the parking space page on the
wiki:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space
->
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/parking

It is suggested to use access:disabled=* as a more detailed tag.

So it would seem that one could do:

fee=yes - to cover everyone

and

access:disabled=yes - to indicate no-fee for disabled.

might be one way to go.


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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Warin
On 12/01/19 08:28, Xavier wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 09:41:13PM +0100, Richard wrote:
>> looked at the possibilities, one problem: many parking places are
>> fee=yes for normal users and fee=no for handicapped users.
>> How can this be mapped?
>
> If you look into the proposal page from the parking space page on the
> wiki:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking_space
> ->
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/parking
>
> It is suggested to use access:disabled=* as a more detailed tag.
>
> So it would seem that one could do:
>
> fee=yes - to cover everyone
>
> and
>
> access:disabled=yes - to indicate no-fee for disabled.
To me that just says disabled have access, nothing about the fee.

fee:disabled=no might be better???
  See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:fee#New_values



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Re: wheelchair designated parking space tagging?

Richard Z.
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 09:01:02AM +1100, Warin wrote:

> >access:disabled=yes - to indicate no-fee for disabled.
> To me that just says disabled have access, nothing about the fee.
>
> fee:disabled=no might be better???
>  See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:fee#New_values

indeed, that looks like a good solution and I have just documented it
somewhere:)

Richard

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Yay, new howto map for diabilities created in wiki

Richard Z.
In reply to this post by Warin
Hi,

collected the information that I found here:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Handicap

Please add and fix descriptions, add redirects and links

Richard


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Re: Yay, new howto map for diabilities created in wiki

Philip Barnes
Hi Richard
The word handicap in this context is very outdated. It is likely to be seen as condescending.

I would suggest changing to disability.

Cheers
Phil (trigpoint)

On 11 January 2019 22:18:01 GMT, Richard <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

collected the information that I found here:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Handicap

Please add and fix descriptions, add redirects and links

Richard
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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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