wheelchair = hiking

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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Peter Elderson
Electric wheelchairs and the like (NL "scootmobiel)" are very common in Nederland, simple wheelchairs on a route are rarely seen these days and if so, they are pushed. Sports variants are around, they would not be defeated by a slow slope. A regulare kerb is no problem, besides, almost all crossings have a route with lowered sections.

So I think wheelchair=yes is not very useful over here. Wheelchair=no would make more sense, although I think most people would take their chances anyway.


Vr gr Peter Elderson


Op wo 19 jun. 2019 om 10:26 schreef Mark Wagner <[hidden email]>:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:57:25 -0700
Nick Bolten <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > IMO wheelchair=yes means accessible for most basic wheelchairs. 
>
> Yes, but it's something that is frequently difficult to estimate.

After learning that the trail from the Old Faithful viewing area to
Castle Geyser isn't considered wheelchair-accessible, I've given up on
the idea that wheelchair-accessibility is something that mere mortals
are capable of determining.  To my untrained eye, it's nearly perfect:
four meters wide, quality asphalt paving, no cross slope, and
effectively flat.  But apparently that "effectively" isn't good enough:
an elevation gain of five meters over the course of a 700-meter run is
enough to defeat a wheelchair user.

--
Mark

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Re: wheelchair = hiking

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Markus-5


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 18 giu 2019, alle ore 18:43, Markus <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> Are these signed wheelchair routes? If so, i would create a type=route + route=wheelchair relation.


actually these are hiking routes, which are also advertised as suitable for wheelchairs, they are not only wheelchair routes, they are mainly hiking routes.

Cheers, Martin
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Re: wheelchair = hiking

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Mark Wagner


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 19 giu 2019, alle ore 10:22, Mark Wagner <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
>  To my untrained eye, it's nearly perfect:
> four meters wide, quality asphalt paving, no cross slope, and
> effectively flat.  But apparently that "effectively" isn't good enough:
> an elevation gain of five meters over the course of a 700-meter run is
> enough to defeat a wheelchair user.


this means 0,7% incline on average, which shouldn’t be a problem. Maybe there were other problems as well?

Cheers, Martin
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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Kevin Kenny-3
In reply to this post by Mark Wagner
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:26 AM Mark Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> After learning that the trail from the Old Faithful viewing area to
> Castle Geyser isn't considered wheelchair-accessible, I've given up on
> the idea that wheelchair-accessibility is something that mere mortals
> are capable of determining.  To my untrained eye, it's nearly perfect:
> four meters wide, quality asphalt paving, no cross slope, and
> effectively flat.  But apparently that "effectively" isn't good enough:
> an elevation gain of five meters over the course of a 700-meter run is
> enough to defeat a wheelchair user.

Where did you find the information that it's inaccessible? What I see
in the listing for the area is:

Upper Geyser Basin - Old Faithful Geyser is accessible from the
visitor center, Old Faithful Inn, and Old Faithful Lodge. An
accessible bike/pedestrian path leads from the visitor center 1.5
miles to Morning Glory Pool (3 miles round trip). This path is also
accessible from the Lower Yellowstone General Stores downhill from the
Old Faithful Inn. Castle Geyser and Crested Pool are only 0.2 miles
from this point. This access also reduces the round-trip distance to
Morning Glory Pool to 2.4 miles.

If the trail is accessible all the way to Morning Glory Pool, then
surely it's accessible on the much shorter distance to Castle Geyser.

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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Warin
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
On 19/06/19 21:21, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> Il giorno 18 giu 2019, alle ore 18:43, Markus <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>>
>> Are these signed wheelchair routes? If so, i would create a type=route + route=wheelchair relation.
>
> actually these are hiking routes, which are also advertised as suitable for wheelchairs, they are not only wheelchair routes, they are mainly hiking routes.
>

In which case I would simply add wheelchair=yes to them, as the OSMwiki says "suitable to be used with a wheelchair".


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Re: wheelchair = hiking

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> Am 20.06.2019 um 03:15 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>
> In which case I would simply add wheelchair=yes to them, as the OSMwiki says "suitable to be used with a wheelchair".


In which case I will repeat my sentence from #15:
if we would use “yes” we could not distinguish those which are promoted from those that are simply suitable

(designated)

Cheers, Martin
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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Warin
On 20/06/19 16:06, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

>
> sent from a phone
>
>> Am 20.06.2019 um 03:15 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> In which case I would simply add wheelchair=yes to them, as the OSMwiki says "suitable to be used with a wheelchair".
>
> In which case I will repeat my sentence from #15:
> if we would use “yes” we could not distinguish those which are promoted from those that are simply suitable
>
> (designated)
>

OSM tags toilets that are wheelchair 'suitable' etc. So I see no problem here.

If you mean the difference between a mapper who thinks something is wheelchair suitable compared to a mapper who uses a sign or brochure to judge it .. use the source key for that.

Promotion? No tag for it, some places have promotion from time to time, some all the time, some none of the time.

If you want some indication on the level of confidence in the tagging .. we don't require it for any other feature, why start here?


Do you want a grading system for wheelchair accessibility? Similar to surface smoothness etc?
I'm not going there. And I would not put it on the key wheelchair=*





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Re: wheelchair = hiking

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> Am 20.06.2019 um 08:32 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>
> If you mean the difference between a mapper who thinks something is wheelchair suitable compared to a mapper who uses a sign or brochure to judge it .. use the source key for that.


the difference I see is between something that is wheelchair suitable and a route which is signed or officially declared wheelchair suitable. From the latter I would expect it to be more reliable and possibly more effort will be put into keeping it usable by wheelchairs

You can go running everywhere, still there are also specific running tracks.

Cheers, Martin
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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Warin
On 20/06/19 17:27, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> Am 20.06.2019 um 08:32 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> If you mean the difference between a mapper who thinks something is wheelchair suitable compared to a mapper who uses a sign or brochure to judge it .. use the source key for that.
>
> the difference I see is between something that is wheelchair suitable and a route which is signed or officially declared wheelchair suitable. From the latter I would expect it to be more reliable and possibly more effort will be put into keeping it usable by wheelchairs

It is not done for hiking paths.. at least not here.

Some are 'official' and use sections on beaches where the path is not visible at all.

Some are not official yet used and common knowledge. Some get maintenance, some don't.

There are no specific tags for 'official' and 'in use' or whatever.

Some are on 'official maps', others are not (I take pride in putting those into OSM, provided they are 'on the ground').






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Re: wheelchair = hiking

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> Am 20.06.2019 um 09:54 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>
> It is not done for hiking paths.. at least not here.


there’s the distinction between foot=yes and foot=designated
there are ~5800 wheelchair=designated in the db, someone is already using this.


Cheers, Martin
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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Peter Elderson
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
It’s a case for wheelchair mappers then?

Mvg Peter Elderson

> Op 20 jun. 2019 om 09:27 heeft Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> Am 20.06.2019 um 08:32 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> If you mean the difference between a mapper who thinks something is wheelchair suitable compared to a mapper who uses a sign or brochure to judge it .. use the source key for that.
>
>
> the difference I see is between something that is wheelchair suitable and a route which is signed or officially declared wheelchair suitable. From the latter I would expect it to be more reliable and possibly more effort will be put into keeping it usable by wheelchairs
>
> You can go running everywhere, still there are also specific running tracks.
>
> Cheers, Martin
> _______________________________________________
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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Andreas Lattmann-2
In reply to this post by Warin
>(I take pride in putting those into OSM, provided they are 'on the ground').


Sure! I don't want to insert anything that is not verifiable on the ground. Rather, I will advise the various associations of disabled people to raise awareness among the authorities. But where they have already been conceived and promoted by the authorities, I would like to insert the correct tags. In several paths there are already signs, information panels for disabled people.

Andreas
--
I❤️ Software Libero.

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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Andreas Lattmann-2
In reply to this post by Andreas Lattmann-2
So, how should I tag these pathways for the disabled?
--
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Re: wheelchair = hiking

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> Am 21.06.2019 um 13:28 schrieb Andreas Lattmann <[hidden email]>:
>
> So, how should I tag these pathways for the disabled?


reread the contributions to this thread and take a decision ;-)

Cheers, Martin

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Re: wheelchair = hiking

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Andreas Lattmann-2
It seems that for paths itself current wheelchair tags are sufficient.

For relations it would be nice to distinguish routes specifically for people
on wheelchairs and ones marked as passable by people on wheelchairs.


21 Jun 2019, 13:28 by [hidden email]:
So, how should I tag these pathways for the disabled?
--
I❤️ Software Libero.

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